SPEAKER_00 0:08

Hi and welcome back to Humanising Insurance. I'm your host, Daniel Grimwood Bird, and I'm delighted to be joined today by a really good friend of mine, the Vice President of Global Partnerships at InsureTech Insights, and the co-founder of the Insure Tech Run Club, the charming and athletic Rory Pike. Rory, welcome to Humanising Insurance. Thank you for having me. It's great to see you. We were just chatting before we started recording. We haven't seen each other in uh in ages. So I'm delighted to get you on and thank you for giving us the time. I'm sure uh we are a couple of weeks away from Inshore Tech Insights Europe. So I'm sure your calendar is and your workload is very, very uh busy. Uh so I do appreciate your time.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

No, I as I say, it's uh a pleasure as always to uh yeah, wherever I have a chance to catch up with you, whether it's recorded or not, uh I always enjoy it. So yeah, pleasure to be here. Marvelous.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Roy, let's let's start where we where we always start. Uh insurance isn't a career that most people think they're gonna get into. So what did you think you were gonna be uh when you were younger? What was the dream?

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Um okay, cool. Yeah, uh good question. So I was um I people probably don't know this about me, but I I studied graphic design. Um so I was uh I was always quite uh a visual person. You know, I I loved the idea of um the utilization of aesthetics to make you feel a certain type of way, um, which led me on then to to being um I did my internship of Vogue, uh, which again quite uh quite interesting and very different from the the world of insurance. Um and it all sort of stemmed from um Billy and Shipaboe kind of felt like this might not be for me. Okay. Um so then went down like a bit of an entrepreneurial route, which at the time we created this brand where we would take like a uh a white trainer uh and paint a design onto it, basically. Okay. Um from there we went on to doing pop-ups in Harvey Nichols, uh, Harrods. Um, and you know, again, just getting quite creative with it, seeing what we could do, started making some money. Uh and my my business partner at the time, who was also on my course, um, he was sort of he was like, hey, like I want to get into property. So I was like, okay, uh sounds good. I'll uh I'll give it a crack as well. Uh and then from there, we really we sort of like together went on to to do some properties together in uh up north, I choose, which is where I'm from. Uh placement St. Helens, uh, which interesting my uh one of the houses that I bought at the time was um was one of my granddad's that he used to own when he was younger. Amazing. Um so yeah, bit of a bit of an interesting one. Um and then from there, so uh obviously I needed to be mortgageable. Um first couple that I did, I used his mortgageability. Um, and then uh the sort of second two that we did, uh, I wanted to use my mortgageability. Um so of course I needed a job on paper. So uh I was like, okay, what's uh something where you know I can I sort of do it? It's probably not graphic design because you know that's yeah, it's quite a different career trajectory. So I wanted something that was sort of easy to get into, um, you know, it and probably sort of generated uh some good good money at the time uh in doing that. So I was like, okay, sales. Um and at the time as well, I was also I was getting an experience in like the world of sales from you know talking to like uh the sort of tradies and things like that, and doing the property, uh selling the shoes as well. Um we had an investor that we turned down for the shoe business. Um, so all these things sort of got me to that point, and um I ended up joining a small insure tech, uh which was based in Liverpool at the time. Um and then uh yeah, so I I sort of got my first experience in the world of insurance and insure tech at that point. Um, and then alongside that, I was still doing the property. Uh I was about to launch a wine ball. And so we had everything in place. Uh and then uh COVID hit, which uh threw a huge spanner in the works and the wine bar plans. Yeah. Uh and so I was uh and I had a girlfriend at the time, and she was like, hey, I'm probably gonna move down to London. And I was like, uh, okay, London could be uh could be interesting. Um and then uh I don't know whether you remember the gentleman called Bradley Collins. So he um I was he's our our old C CO here at Introduc Insights. Uh I I had a conversation with him and you know we we sort of really really gel rebonded uh about this whole idea that you know insurance is an industry that you can you can sort of have a bit of fun with, uh, you know, get a little bit creative with it, um, make an impact. And so, you know, I I sort of said it's a bit of a gamble for me to stop what I was doing back home, but I was in a place where you know I wasn't I I managed to sort of figure out the wine bar, get rid of that. Um, you know, we weren't we weren't obviously doing the trainers anymore. Uh that sort of fizzled out, and then it was like, okay, uh, I just didn't have any ties basically. Um and yeah, so I wanted that new challenge. And as I say, this this business um since then, I've been here like five years, uh coming up to five years, I think, and haven't looked back. You know, it's been a very interesting and and insightful experience. And yeah, I I I think I I never when I was in that sort of initial period of of doing all those entrepreneurial things would have expected that actually I get so much more entrepreneurial insight from being in a business like this. Um so so it yeah, it I've not looked back since and yeah, here I am to this uh to this day. Amazing.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Um do you think I I see a lot of like custom sneakers stuff come across my Instagram feed uh and things like that? Do you think if the sneaker business, if you'd started that uh later when social media was bigger, you probably would have done more or still be doing it, or do you think it would have just been a more um challenging market with lots of people able to do it?

SPEAKER_01 6:54

So we we had a really interesting concept. Um, so we we well we had a huge social media following. Um so that was that was a a big win for us at the time when we had a lot of sales coming through there. Um but what we what we wanted to do, and uh when I mentioned we had an investor who was really keen to to sort of get involved at the time. Um but the and here's another one actually, we uh we interestingly ended up um we applied to Dragon's Dem at the time. Okay. Um and the concept was you know, the um uh students, art students, when they come out of you know, uh of sort of studying, that first role is is really hard to get, you know, they either sort of go into like uh yeah, a really difficult role, uh, and you know, they're all five the same roles, or you know, you go into being uh a sort of soul trader, right? An artist. Um but what we wanted to do is provide like a sort of introductory sort of like step for those those students where they can come in and be like uh be part of like one of our workshops. So you'd sort of mass produce your own sort of you know, own styles. And the idea was like each and every one of them is different in some way, uh, even with like the the sort of you know the patterns and styles that we had produced. Um, or you'd submit like, hey, I want like XYZ design on the on the trainer, and then that artist would try and create it. Um so we the idea was to like it wasn't just us doing it, it was like we'd hire these uh the these sort of yeah uh people who just graduated to be part of the business and then scale it across the country. Um so we yeah, we ended up uh so we we we did all the preliminary um interviews and things for Dragon's Den. Yeah, uh signed all the papers. Um and unfortunately what they do is uh well I don't know what all the mounts is, but uh I will do. Uh but they they overbook on purpose um and then drop drop the least mature businesses. So um so yeah, we didn't make it on, but uh we did all this other yeah, the introductory stuff initially, which is quite funny, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Super interesting, and I I guess quite terrifying in part.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Yeah. At the time, I mean this um I was terrible at public speaking at the time. Like I hated it. I so I I you know people might not know this so when they see some of the things that I do, but I'm uh I'm quite introverted. Uh I I call myself an extroverted introvert. So, you know, I I I can sort of able to do it, but it's not like I don't generate energy from just being like the life of the the party and like the person who's you know always the loudest in the room. So um, you know, I I remember when I did I did a a pitch about the um the shoe business uh to you my whole sort of university, um the the sort of uh the people in the the art department, um it was this um yeah, it was sort of a scheme that they had um where they'd booked on all these, it was like a program about like young entrepreneurs, something like that. And they were like, hey, you know, we have a free slot. Um we know you guys run this business. Do you want to come in and pitch? Uh and my business partner, he was uh he and he's much more expert. So he was like, Oh, I'm busy, like you do it, like you go and do it. And I was like, Oh, yeah, Christ, this is gonna be uh, this is gonna be rough. Um, and I I remember it, so I I sort of uh I messed up a little bit on one of the slides, and some of the numbers were slightly wrong. Um, and you know, you had these like a judging panel of like four investors, and we weren't supposed to be part of the sort of competition, but you know, they had the slots and we had to fill it. Um and uh yeah, I scuffed my um alliance, got it slightly wrong with the numbers, and then sort of sat back down and then realized like what I'd got wrong. Uh, because they pulled me up on it and I couldn't answer, and I was like, so I just forgot for whatever reason. Um, so I was like, okay, right. And I I stood up and sort of said, uh, hey, like everyone, you know, um I realized what I got wrong, you know, it was XYZ. And then they go, okay, okay. And then, you know, sort of clap, sit that, sit back down. Uh, and that's how we we got one of the investors uh interested in the business because he was on the judging panel.

unknown 11:45

Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:45

And he was he sort of said to me, he was like, you know, obviously you're not part of the competition, but you know, let's have a chat. Um, I really liked how you sort of fixed it. Um yeah. And so, you know, at the time I I hated all the yeah, that yeah. Well, I guess uh it was instrumental in getting me out of my comfort zone. Uh and I think since then, like every year I tried to put myself a little bit more out of my comfort zone uh bit by bit.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Yeah, I mean let's let's stick with that because you you are self-confessed introvert. And all the time that I've known you, you are um who you come across as very softly spoken, right? But yeah, I've seen you uh on stage interviewing senior leaders in front of really big audiences. So how how do you grow comfortable with doing that?

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Yeah, it's um I I still get like the you know imposter syndrome sort of uh sort of thing, which is um really weird at times. And um, you know, people have sort of opinions of intrusic insights of the business and you know, and what we do, and some people think it's this huge sort of organization, like hundreds and hundreds of people, you know, doing uh which you know it could be, could what could easily be, right? Um, but the reality of it is, you know, we're um a lot less people in the business, you know, we're sort of what 20, 25 people at the minute. Um but I've I've you know sometimes it's easy to be in your little shell of you know, all those people that you spend so much time with in the office and working around, and then then you realize like actually I'm part of something much, much bigger, right? And and I think sometimes that's quite hard to comprehend. Um, and then just how impactful your your role in in the business is. Um so I I always try to like you obviously ground yourself in that I'm here and this is what I'm working on, and these are the people around me, but what I'm doing impacts so much more than that, right? Um, so I I always try to look past like what I'm doing in my role to say like the reason why I'm doing it is because it impacts all of these things in in such an interesting in industry. So and and I think that then removes that sort of for me anyway, it removes the idea of like uh the imposter syndrome sort of sort of thing. Yeah, and it it makes me feel like ah, like I, you know, we are important, like we are making an impact. So um, so when I when I get on stage, I I feel like, you know, like why why should I not be alongside the the groups here of SWD, you know, all these amazing and interesting and very senior people. Um but also the other thing is, you know, uh speaking to these people. It's uh and you know, the name of this podcast is humanizing insurance. Uh these people are human. Yeah you know, they're they they uh when you talk to them, they're not as scary.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Um, it it is um it is strange how seniority puts people on a pedestal that makes them seem untouchable, and actually there's uh some really genuinely lovely people uh that that I've met throughout my career with very senior titles. And just sticking with that, that being on stage piece and and the interviewing, when you are you know having one of these stage discussions, whether it's it's with a panel or um or just sort of a fireside chat one-to-one piece, how how do you approach it? Are you thinking I need to be sort of journalistic, I just need to facilitate what they're saying, or are you just hoping to have a a really interesting conversation?

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Yeah, so um I always like to bring back um uh bring this up back to like what's our mission statement in terms of what do we want to achieve from everything that we do? Um, which for me is to be the number one catalyst for innovation and insurance. So um with the content in particular, there's sort of two things that we look at. So insights and inspiration. Um so you know, I can go on stage and I can say, hey, you know, this, this, and that, and the insights are great, but unless it's delivered in like an inspirational way and people feel, you know, they feel what you're saying, then it's not as impactful, right? So for me, it it's balancing. Uh I'm not the expert, by the way. So I I I'm the you know, the person who needs to elicit the insights from these people, um, make them a little bit uncomfortable. Um, because that's how you do it differently than you know, someone doing it sort of uh uh par at, you know, uh wherever else. But you know, how we'd be the best at listening in by uh insights, sorry, is uh yeah, challenging people somewhat. Obviously, you don't want to make them too uncomfortable and put them in a difficult situation, but um yeah, so that to that piece and then really just trying to deliver it in a way that's you know, it's watchable and it, you know, you feel like you're part of the conversation. Um it was the the last one that I did was in Hong Kong, which uh so it was with the group CEO of FWD and then group CEO of uh Baltech, so uh Rob Shimek, who I know very well, um, which that makes it a lot easier, of course, knowing him. And sure, but and the way that they sort of bounced off each other on stage as well was was was really good. But um it's trying to, yeah, for me, it's breaking down those sort of you know, like personal barriers, you know, to to really make it uh watchable and and quite fun. Um but then yeah, as I say, really just challenge them to to actually you know actually give some insights that they probably wouldn't usually give uh at events that they go to.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

And are there any moments or conversations that you've had on stage that have really stuck with you?

SPEAKER_01 18:16

Um good question. So uh well, I think probably because just because it's the top of mind and um the difficult thing with that is like half of them I I I can't remember. Just mean it because it's like uh you know they yeah, you sort of make like you're so in the moment and like it's you know obviously the adrenals running and all those things, and yeah, as soon as it's done, like I'm you know, I'm onto my next meeting, I'm on to what I need to next. So yeah, it's it's quite quite difficult. But um, but I I've watched back all the sessions and you know from the first ones that I did when I sort of yeah initially decided to do it. Um but I I'm gonna flip it slightly into one that I'm probably um uh more excited about. And uh I won't say the name of the company, but it's uh a really small startup that um and I I don't deal with too many startups nowadays, you know, I tend to deal with some of the sort of bigger companies, but uh it was someone that was recommended to to sort of speak with me. I was like, hey, yeah, sure, let's jump on a call. Um, and it's you know super small startup, and uh, you know, I was genuinely excited by the product that they have. So I was like, hey, like let's do a quick interview uh at the next event in uh in Europe. Um so and uh and I'm really excited by that, where it's like, you know, I'm not just thinking about like, oh my god, how can I interview the most senior person and you know be on the biggest stage? Like I I actually want to to do the things that actually make an impact as well. Yeah, sure. Um so that that's one where I'm like uh I'm really looking forward to just yeah, digging into exactly how they're gonna be the you know, who we sit on that main stage with in like five years' time, right? Um and if I can help them get there quicker, then amazing.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

Um you do sit at a really interesting intersection for the industry. Yeah, we've already mentioned innovation. There's insurers, there's insure techs, there's um technologists, I guess. Uh you put it as investors uh uh come to your your conferences. Is insurance homogenous across the US, uh, Europe, and Asia, or do you see any uh real glaring differences between markets?

SPEAKER_01 21:01

Um good question. So uh I I think there's uh intrinsically uh like it's sort of innate differences in the the wheats, you know, in in the sort of relationships and uh all the little sort of connections between people uh and different businesses. Um you know it took me a while to to really get sort of up to speed in particular in Asia, um, just in such a different market. But I I think at the sort of heart of it and you know holistically, like we we see it all in the same way, you know, you have your sort of um let's say you have your sort of buyers and your sellers, which you know for us, uh these are the people that need to change, and these are the people that can help to change. Sure. And you know, if we focus on more um on you know. On one or the other, uh more so than the other, um, it's uh it doesn't work. So what we try to do is just balance, okay, uh A, we need to make sure that it's not just a room full of sellers, right? Because then they're all just, yeah, there's no purpose, right? And you're not actually changing anything because these are the people that need to change. Um, so we we spend a lot of time to really focus on this as well, where you say, okay, it's amazing, you know, being an insure tech event and having your insure techs, but you also need to have, okay, who are the people that you know actually at the core of it need to change? And you know, how do we build relationships with them and have them sort of uh yeah, tell us like what are they looking for? You know, what do they sort of see with uh the future of technology? Um, what are some of the barriers that they need to be broken down to be able to adopt these technologies? Um and then I think you know, naturally you have all these different ecosystem players that sort of sit in between that. Um and I think that sort of structure, if we look at all three events, it it's very similar in that sense.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

Sure. Okay. And what based on what you've seen, I guess a uh a two-party question, Rory. What do insure techs or innovators not understand about the way the insurers do change? And what you know on the on the flip side of that, what do insurers tend to not understand about the way that insure techs or innovators work?

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Um I I think a common theme that I've uh I've se quite a lot, uh, particularly with the sort of tech tech companies and the techies. Um they a lot of time they this you know they sort of um they they go products first, and they say, hey, we have this shiny product. Uh do you want to buy? And typically that's not uh it's not very well received by the you know the buyers because they sit there going, uh I have these problems and I don't know what the solution is to that problem yet. Uh so I think that like that is one of the biggest barriers that I've seen, which is you know, um a bit of a disconnect between the tech companies and the you know the the adopters where where you know they're saying, hey, um yeah, I I have all of these different challenges. You probably have the solution, but I don't know how to find the solution. Um and that's why sometimes the you know the the buyer side can sort of shell up and sort of say, all right, you know, we'll figure it out on our own, you know, maybe they build the solution. Where you know there's probably someone over here that just has it out of box and they can integrate it like that, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Um so yeah, I'd I'd say that's that's like one of the biggest challenges I've I've seen really.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

Super interesting. Uh now. You I referenced earlier on, you're one of the founding members of the Insure Tech Run Club. Something that I have often been asked to join and managed to put it off uh as a slightly overweight, nearly middle-aged man. Um how did how did that start?

SPEAKER_01 25:29

So this is actually um it's a a bit of a um a contested accolade. Okay um being uh the founder, yeah, being the founder of who is uh or who is the founder of the Insultate Run Club, um, which uh I know that Nigel Walsh, um, I'm sure you know Nigel, he's uh he's thrown his hat in the mix. Um so I'm I'm gonna shy away from saying, you know, that I am the founder of the Insultate Run Club. Um, but I I think what we've tried to do um yeah since then, right, is is really like build a bit of a structure around it. So yeah, simple things like having just a bit of a WhatsApp group, having like uh you know a community where people can just sort of network on uh a shared enjoyment. Um and I think that's you know, I I unfortunately I run less than I used to, um, which is uh you know, it's actually quite nice to have the Sort of Run Club to make me go out and do some more run. Yeah. Um but it's yeah, I've done this a couple of times where I just have uh have a meeting in the diary. I know the other person likes to run, and I'll just say, hey, should we do a run meeting? Um and it's it's so good, like uh because you know, your endorphins are sort of a bit heightened, you know, it feels like it's not like too formal and uh it's quite nice. So again, doing that at like a bigger scale where what tends to happen is like you know, you you spend most of the time speaking to one person or two people within the run club, and you know, obviously ideally you find some shared common grounds and then you explore that further. Um, so I I I you know I've had a lot of benefits from just being there and and you know, myself like speaking to different people, um, whether it's you know me sort of uh like finding potential business or actually just connecting X, like someone over here with someone over here as well. Um, so it's uh yeah, and it's also good fun, right? It's it's nice to do something that is just a passion as well.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Absolutely. I I often find with conferences a lot of the most valuable conversations happen around the conference, but not necessarily at the conference. I know that wherever you have a conference, you also have uh in short tech run club uh that that can meet up and go out. Do you think and you know, especially in London, a lot of networking is based around alcohol? Um I I mean I'm in the worst possible position, so I I rarely drink and I I rarely run, so I can't get involved in either. But um do you think having something more more health focused makes networking open to more people?

SPEAKER_01 28:33

I I think so, yeah. And you know, on the point of like uh, you know, we we do in the future want to make it a bit more sort of um open for all abilities. So, you know, because uh at the minute now it is quite funny because some people do just like you know, they just run off and they're they're they're sort of you know they're lapping us at points and things, which is um just fine, you know. Um we we do want to have like different sort of groups of abilities and things, I think that'd be nice. But um, but but to your point, like absolutely it's um yeah, I I um I'm now in my 30s. Um and so the you know drinking becomes uh more of a task and getting up the next day and feeling feeling fresh. And you know, I now have uh responsibilities in the business with uh with team members and trying to grow that out. And you know, they rely on on me to to you know sort of be there and be the best version of myself as well. So um I I've I've definitely thought about this myself, which is you know, I don't want to be doing on my networking other drinks, you know. Uh I want to be able to sort of yeah, mix it with something sort of uh more positive to to lifestyle and uh and yeah, as I say, being being present, but um, but that's not to say that I don't think there's value in going out and you know having a good time with with people as well.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

Um yeah, so I I I guess it just gives people the um the choice as to how they define a good time.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Exactly, exactly. And um, yeah, as as you say, you know, it shouldn't always revolve around alcohol. Um but uh I see you've got two guitars there in the back as well, you know. Maybe you could do uh it's like the Inshow Tech Music Club.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

I I am enthusiastic rather than talented uh at music. So um yes, I I I imagine it would be short-lived uh once people actually actually hear me play. Uh I I'm more of a fan of uh doing stuff on a golf course, actually. That's that's my my jam. And you know, I I guess just uh to finish this point. I I was listening to another podcast the other day, and they were talking about I think it was rucking, right? Walking with uh a weight on your back as a uh as an exercise method. And they were saying that you know studies have shown that particularly men um you know talk better, socialise better, shoulder to shoulder rather than you know, necessarily face to face and when doing an activity. So you know if you are you know if you do struggle with um being introverted, you and I share introversion. Um maybe something like a run club is a way to to network without necessarily the pressure. And I'll I'll tell you a story, Rory. Uh I can't remember when it was, probably two years ago in Short Tech Insights, New York. Uh, I was speaking and there was uh a speaker's drinks beforehand. And I walked in to uh to the event and uh you know, grabbed a beer off the tray and I looked across the room and there was no one that I knew. And I put the beer back down and I was about to turn around and walk out because it was the most terrifying thing in the world to me. And I think it was Red actually, um, who either does or did manage content for you. So I think she saw my shoulders start to turn and came and like linked my arm and walked me in and introduced me to someone. Um because it's tough, you know, to to walk into a room where you don't know anyone and and strike up a conversation. So if you do struggle with that, maybe find a red club, maybe go and try out the golf day that happens before conferences. You know, find something that you're comfortable with because the opportunities are there.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

Yeah, I mean it's um uh it's it's an interesting, you know, concept. And um I've I've been in that position myself so many times, and like I feel like the easy exit is to exit, you know. Yeah, uh it's all like going your phone and then sort of pretend that you're you're you're busy doing something, or um, but I it's every time that I end up, you know, I sort of put myself in these situations, and that's obviously the first step to uh to get in there. But uh and the second thing is just knowing again that you know people are human, and you know, if they're gonna judge you for whatever reason or have an opinion on you, and then that that's on them, right? That's uh but majority of people that I, you know, when I'm in these situations, you end up like talking to them, you're like, you know, Jesus, like what was I actually like scared about, you know. Um and and typically it's not always about like the you know, the alcohol that should be the the thing that you know calms you down, as you say. It's you know, it's realizing that the people who are sort of in this industry and and you know they're quite nice, actually. They're not that scary, and you know, they're actually happy to talk to you. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

Absolutely. And yeah, the the way I get around it now is the worst thing that happens is the conversation fizzes out, or yeah, they they don't like you, but you didn't know them in the first place. So the the net result is is nothing, um uh apart from you just exercise that muscle of going to to talk to people. Um Rory, we're a little way out from Inshortic Insights Europe. In fact, this podcast will probably be going out around uh around the event here in here in London. Um you've also got New York in June and then Hong Kong in December. Correct. Yeah. So a busy period for you. I mean, as a final question, when you have these big three events that that happen each year, how you I imagine there's mass adrenaline and mass stress in the run-up and during. How do you then how do you then do the other 360 days when you're not at a conference? How do you you know recover from the high of an event and not sort of get get down in the drudgery of the the low once it's happened?

SPEAKER_01 35:06

Yeah, good, good question. I used to struggle with this um early days in the in the role, um, because it it was sort of it was very extreme where you know you'd sort of go like this and then like obviously have a bit of a gap and then like back up again. Um and ultimately what I try to do as much as possible is just try and level it out, um, which uh unfortunately these days I mean it means that I'm just working hard all the time. Okay. And just trying to, you know, trying to be that person that is um, you know, raising the bar constantly and not just when it matters most. Um so you know, I I always have my eyes on, okay, you know, what's happening in Asia, even though we're, you know, so far out right now, you know, I'm still working on that. Um naturally, of course, you get your little peaks and traps where you know right now I am working more on Europe, but you know, I'm still working on the US, I'm still working on Asia. And um I think the key thing there is I I try to sort of step back and instead of looking at like us and saying we host these three events, um, I try to say, okay, I have this portfolio of companies that I work with, and it's you know, they they sort of tell me where they want to go. Sure. So it's you know, I approach every conversation in a way which is I'm not here to sell you, you know, either Europe or or the US or Asia or you know, digital or whatever sort of other private sort of bespoke things that we do. Um, I'm led by whatever you tell me. And I think that's uh changing my role to be from being I'm you know someone that sort of sells multiple events into I'm an integrating, integrated uh marketing partner, you know, wherever I think the the best space for you to be and the best things for you to do, it's my job to sort of you know take that information, what are you trying to achieve, um, and then put that into okay, this is what I just think could work. Um so I I I try to limit the peaks and troughs as as much as possible. Um and really, but yeah, as I say, the difficulty of that is it's sort of got me on like uh a bit of a yeah, a bit of a spree of just working hard all the time. So I I try to you know make sure that I do switch off and things as well, uh, which that that's a big part of you know what I want to do this year is to say, you know, when I go on holiday or when I'm you know, even on the weekends, right? Like I try not to think about work as much as possible. Um and try to be present around you know, obviously the the people that remind me as well. Amazing.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

Roy, I've thoroughly enjoyed this conversation, even though I've I've known you for a long time. I've learned a ton uh about you. If people want to know more about you, the Insure Tech Run Club or Inshore Tech Insights, where should they go?

SPEAKER_01 38:22

So uh obviously I'll I'll be at the um the event in March, you know, I'll be at the event in June, I'll be at the event in uh yeah, in uh in Asia. Um I'll uh yeah, I'll be at every single, hopefully, ideally. I miss the the odd couple. Um, but yeah, I'll be at the the run clubs as well. Uh we host one of those every month. Um but otherwise, you know, I'm I I think LinkedIn is uh is such a a cool thing, you know, you connect with so many people and you break down the barriers of formality a little a little bit more. You know, I see like the you have like email, LinkedIn, and then these like face-to-face things.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

Um I always find it so like uh so interesting where uh again like it sort of breaks down the barriers of uh formalities and and titles and gives you like a and I can message someone on LinkedIn and say, hey, how's it going? And you know, it's fancy chat kind of thing. So uh always very receptive to people on LinkedIn and and the use of LinkedIn. So that's probably yeah, probably all those things there.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

Amazing. Well Roy, thank you very much for taking the time. I wish you the very best of luck with uh with all the conferences this year, and you know, as you continue to to grow and and be a catalyst for innovation in the industry.

SPEAKER_01 39:44

Thanks, sir. Yeah, really, really appreciate it. The uh yeah, you invited me onto the the podcast, and yeah, I um it'd be good to uh good to see you in person as well soon as well.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

We will definitely do that. Cheers, Rory. Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

Cheers, Dan.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

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